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1st Session, 41st Parliament

Issue 151

Tuesday, April 16, 2013
2:00 p.m.

The Honourable Noël A. Kinsella, Speaker

The Members convened were:

The Honourable Senators

Andreychuk, Baker, Batters, Bellemare, Black, Boisvenu, Braley, Buth, Callbeck, Campbell, Carignan, Champagne, Chaput, Charette-Poulin, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dagenais, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, De Bané, Demers, Downe, Doyle, Duffy, Dyck, Eggleton, Enverga, Finley, Fortin-Duplessis, Fraser, Furey, Gerstein, Greene, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kenny, Kinsella, Lang, LeBreton, Lovelace Nicholas, MacDonald, Maltais, Manning, Marshall, Martin, Massicotte, McCoy, McInnis, McIntyre, Mercer, Merchant, Meredith, Mitchell, Mockler, Moore, Munson, Nancy Ruth, Neufeld, Ngo, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oliver, Patterson, Plett, Poirier, Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Runciman, Segal, Seidman, Seth, Sibbeston, Smith (Cobourg), Smith (Saurel), Stewart Olsen, Tannas, Tardif, Tkachuk, Unger, Verner, Wallace, Wallin, Wells, White, Zimmer

The Members in attendance to business were:

The Honourable Senators

Andreychuk, Baker, Batters, Bellemare, Black, Boisvenu, Braley, Buth, Callbeck, Campbell, Carignan, Champagne, Chaput, Charette-Poulin, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dagenais, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, De Bané, Demers, Downe, Doyle, Duffy, Dyck, Eggleton, Enverga, Finley, Fortin-Duplessis, Fraser, Furey, Gerstein, Greene, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kenny, Kinsella, Lang, LeBreton, Lovelace Nicholas, MacDonald, Maltais, Manning, Marshall, Martin, Massicotte, McCoy, McInnis, McIntyre, Mercer, Merchant, Meredith, Mitchell, Mockler, Moore, Munson, Nancy Ruth, Neufeld, Ngo, Nolin, Ogilvie, *Oh, Oliver, Patterson, Plett, Poirier, Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Runciman, Segal, Seidman, Seth, Sibbeston, Smith (Cobourg), Smith (Saurel), Stewart Olsen, Tannas, Tardif, Tkachuk, Unger, Verner, Wallace, Wallin, Wells, White, Zimmer

PRAYERS

INTRODUCTION OF SENATORS

The Honourable the Speaker informed the Senate that the Clerk of the Senate had received a certificate from the Registrar General of Canada showing that Scott Tannas had been summoned to the Senate.

The Honourable the Speaker informed the Senate that there was a Senator without waiting to be introduced.

The Honourable Senator Tannas was introduced between the Honourable Senator LeBreton, P.C., and the Honourable Senator Unger, and having presented Her Majesty's Writ of Summons it was read by one of the Clerks at the Table as follows:

CANADA

Michael J. Moldaver
(G.S.)

Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories QUEEN, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.

TO
Our Trusty and Well-beloved,

SCOTT TANNAS

Of High River, in the Province of Alberta,

GREETING:

KNOW YOU, that as well for the especial trust and confidence We have manifested in you, as for the purpose of obtaining your advice and assistance in all weighty and arduous affairs which may the State and Defence of Canada concern, We have thought fit to summon you to the Senate of Canada.

AND WE do command you, that all difficulties and excuses whatsoever laying aside, you be and appear for the purposes aforesaid, in the Senate of Canada at all times whensoever and wheresoever Our Parliament may be in Canada convoked and holden, and this you are in no wise to omit.

IN TESTIMONY WHEREOF, We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent and the Great Seal of Canada to be hereunto affixed.

WITNESS:

The Honourable Michael J. Moldaver, a Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court of Canada and Deputy of Our Right Trusty and Well-beloved David Johnston, Chancellor and Principal Companion of Our Order of Canada, Chancellor and Commander of Our Order of Military Merit, Chancellor and Commander of Our Order of Merit of the Police Forces, Governor General and Commander-in-Chief of Canada.

AT OTTAWA, this twenty-fifth day of March in the year of Our Lord two thousand and thirteen and in the sixty- second year of Our Reign.

BY COMMAND,

CHRISTIAN PARADIS

Registrar General of Canada

The Honourable Senator Tannas came to the Table and took and subscribed the Oath prescribed by law, which was administered by the Clerk of the Senate, the Commissioner appointed for that purpose, and took his seat as a Member of the Senate.

The Honourable the Speaker informed the Senate that the Honourable Senator introduced today had made and subscribed the Declaration of Qualification required of him by the Constitution Act 1867, in the presence of the Clerk of the Senate, the Commissioner appointed to receive and witness same.


The Senate observed a minute of silence as a gesture of solidarity with our American neighbours in light of the tragedy that occurred yesterday in Boston.

SENATORS' STATEMENTS

Some Honourable Senators made statements.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

Tabling of documents

The Honourable the Speaker tabled the following:

Report of the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal for the year 2012, entitled: Providing effective resolution of discrimination complaints for Canadians, pursuant to the Canadian Human Rights Act, R. S. C. 1985, c. H-6, sbs. 61(4).—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1550.

°    °    °

The Honourable Senator Carignan tabled the following:

Government Response, dated April 4, 2013, to the ninth report (interim) of Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples entitled: Additions to Reserve: Expediting the Process, tabled in the Senate on November 1, 2012.—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1551S.
(Pursuant to rule 12-24(4), the report and the response were deemed referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples)

Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2013-2014:

Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada and Canadian Polar Commission

Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada

Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency

Canada Border Services Agency

Canada Industrial Relations Board

Canada Revenue Agency

Canada School of Public Service

Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety

Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency

Canadian Food Inspection Agency

Canadian Forces Grievance Board

Canadian Grain Commission

Canadian Heritage

Canadian Human Rights Commission

Canadian Human Rights Tribunal

Canadian Institutes of Health Research

Canadian Intergovernmental Conference Secretariat

Canadian International Development Agency

Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency

Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission

Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Canadian Space Agency

Canadian Transportation Agency

Citizenship and Immigration Canada

Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police

Copyright Board Canada

Correctional Service Canada

Courts Administration Service

Department of Finance Canada

Department of Justice Canada

Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec

Environment Canada

Federal Economic Development Agency for Southern Ontario

Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada

Fisheries and Oceans Canada

Foreign Affairs and International Trade

Health Canada

Human Resources and Skills Development Canada

Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada

Industry Canada

Infrastructure Canada

Library and Archives Canada

Military Police Complaints Commission of Canada

National Defence

National Energy Board

National Film Board

National Research Council Canada

Natural Resources Canada

Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada

Northern Pipeline Agency Canada

Office of the Auditor General of Canada

Office of the Chief Electoral Officer

Office of the Commissioner for Federal Judicial Affairs Canada

Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying Canada

Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Office of the Communications Security Establishment Commissioner

Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada

Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner of Canada

Parks Canada

Parole Board of Canada

Patented Medicine Prices Review Board Canada

Privy Council Office

Public Health Agency of Canada

Public Prosecution Service of Canada

Public Safety Canada

Public Servants Disclosure Protection Tribunal Canada

Public Service Commission of Canada

Public Service Labour Relations Board

Public Service Staffing Tribunal

Public Works and Government Services Canada

RCMP External Review Committee

Registry of the Competition Tribunal

Registry of the Specific Claims Tribunal of Canada

Royal Canadian Mounted Police

Security Intelligence Review Committee

Shared Services Canada

Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada

Statistics Canada

Status of Women Canada

Supreme Court of Canada

The Correctional Investigator Canada

The National Battlefields Commission

Transport Canada

Transportation Appeal Tribunal of Canada

Transportation Safety Board of Canada

Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat

Veterans Affairs Canada

Veterans Review and Appeal Board

Western Economic Diversification Canada.—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1552.

Notices of Motions

The Honourable Senator LeBreton, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cowan:

That pursuant to rule 12-27(1) of the Rules of the Senate, the membership of the Standing Committee on Conflict of Interest for Senators be modified as follows:

The Honourable Senator Frum is added to the committee to fill a vacancy created by a senator's retirement.

Pursuant to rule 12-27(1) the motion was deemed adopted.

SPEAKER'S RULING

On March 19, 2013, as the debate resumed on the motion, as amended, of Senator Cools, seconded by Senator Comeau, concerning the question of privilege relating to the actions of the former Parliamentary Budget Officer, clarification was sought by Senator Cools as to whether or not there were now two questions rather one question before the house.

The Order Paper, at motion 144 under Other Business, reads as follows:

Resuming debate on the motion, as amended, of the Honourable Senator Cools, seconded by the Honourable Senator Comeau:

That this case of privilege, relating to the actions of the Parliamentary Budget Officer, be referred to the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament for consideration, in particular with respect to the consequences for the Senate, for the Senate Speaker, for the Parliament of Canada and for the country's international relations;

And on the motion of the Honourable Senator Tardif, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cowan, that the question be referred to a Committee of the Whole for consideration.

Initially, upon the request for clarification, the Speaker sought to explain that order number 144 now contains, in the third paragraph, a proposal that has characteristics of a superseding motion. This proposal was introduced during debate on March 7, 2013, by Senator Tardif, who stated that "...pursuant to rules 5-7(b) and 6-8(b) I move: that this motion be not now adopted but that it be referred to a Committee of the Whole for consideration''.

Senator Cools rose on a formal point of order and introduced a number of important considerations from the Rules of the Senate and the parliamentary procedural literature, all of which are reported in the published Senate Debates for March 19, 2013. Senators Tardif and Carignan each contributed to discussion on the point of order. Senator Carignan stated that: "...it seems fairly clear to me that Senator Tardif's intention was to propose an amendment...''. At this point Senator Cools stated that "...if this is an amendment, it is a different matter''. In light of this Senator Cools stated that she "would like to withdraw'' the point of order.

The Speaker has been asked to evaluate the current status of motion 144. At the outset, it may be noted that Senator Tardif's proposal — to refer the entire motion relating to the case of privilege, not the actual case of privilege itself, to a Committee of the Whole — is unusual. When speaking to the point of order, the Deputy Leader of the Opposition indicated that "There may be no precedent for such a motion ....'' This does not mean that the motion is necessarily out of order, but it does make the uncertainty, indeed the concern, voiced by Senator Cools understandable. The point of order was therefore a legitimate effort to ensure that the Senate is following proper procedure. To assess this, I will turn to the Rules of the Senate.

The Rules do, in general, allow a motion of the type moved by Senator Tardif. Rule 5-7(b) provides that notice is not required for a motion "to refer a question under debate to a committee''. Rule 6-8(b) then states that during debate on a question, a proposal to "refer the motion to a committee'' is one of the limited class of motions allowed. In neither case do these rules identify exceptions relating to a motion on a case of privilege. It should also be noted that rule 5-8(1) (f) states that a motion to refer a question to committee, if it does not relate to a bill, is debatable. Motions to refer the question under consideration to committee are not common, but they do arise on occasion. When such a motion is before the Senate, debate is on the motion to refer the question to committee, although in point of fact this debate may be far-reaching. If the motion is adopted, the matter goes to that committee for study. If the motion is defeated, debate on the original motion resumes.

It is certainly true, as Senator Cools pointed out, that rule 13-7 establishes a number of parameters that govern debate on a motion moved on a case of privilege. Of particular relevance to the present issue, rule 13-7(4) limits debate to three hours; rule 13-7(3) limits all senators to only one speech of fifteen minutes, effectively removing the right of reply; and rule 13-7(1) makes clear that the motion can only be moved after the ruling on the question of privilege, even though debate may not begin until later that day. Other provisions of rule 13-7 generally apply only on the first day of debate.

In situations in which the analysis may be ambiguous, it is helpful to refer to the principle, expressed by several Speakers, that matters should generally be presumed to be in order unless the opposite is clearly demonstrated. As stated in a ruling of February 24, 2009, "In situations where the analysis is ambiguous, several Senate Speakers have expressed a preference for presuming a matter to be in order, unless and until the contrary position is established. This bias in favour of allowing debate, except where a matter is clearly out of order, is fundamental to maintaining the Senate's role as a chamber of discussion and reflection.'' Senator Tardif has outlined how her motion can be seen as fitting into the general framework of the Rules. As such, there is a reasonable basis to allow debate to continue, so that the Senate itself can decide how best to proceed.

Before concluding, there are two final issues to address. First, as already noted, there is a limit of three hours for debate on Senator Cools' motion. Any time taken in debate on Senator Tardif's motion counts towards that three hour period. Second, the restriction on a senator speaking once, contained in rule 13-7(3), only applies to the main motion. If there is an amendment or some other type of debatable motion moved during the three hours of debate, a senator who has already spoken to the main motion could speak again.

Trusting that this analysis has been helpful to the chamber, debate can continue.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Bills — Second Reading

Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

°    °    °

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator White, seconded by the Honourable Senator Maltais, for the second reading of Bill S-16, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (trafficking in contraband tobacco).

After debate,

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted, on division.

The bill was then read the second time, on division.

The Honourable Senator Carignan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Nolin, that the bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

°    °    °

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Lang, seconded by the Honourable Senator Smith (Saurel), for the second reading of Bill C-42, An Act to amend the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Dallaire moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Moore, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.


With leave,

The Senate reverted to Notices of Motions.

With leave of the Senate,

The Honourable Senator Neufeld moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Comeau:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources have the power to sit at 5:00 p.m. on Tuesday, April 16, 2013, even though the Senate may then be sitting, and that rule 12-18(1) be suspended in relation thereto.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Bills — Second Reading

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Patterson, seconded by the Honourable Senator Seidman, for the second reading of Bill C-47, An Act to enact the Nunavut Planning and Project Assessment Act and the Northwest Territories Surface Rights Board Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts.

After debate,

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The bill was then read the second time.

The Honourable Senator Carignan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Andreychuk, that the bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

°    °    °

Order No. 5 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

Reports of Committees — Other

Orders No. 1 to 3 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Inquiries

Order No. 4 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

OTHER BUSINESS

Commons Public Bills — Third Reading

Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Senate Public Bills — Reports of Committees

Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Senate Public Bills — Second Reading

Orders No. 1 to 4 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Commons Public Bills — Second Reading

Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

°    °    °

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Eaton, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rivard, for the second reading of Bill C-377, An Act to amend the Income Tax Act (requirements for labour organizations).

After debate,

Further debate on the motion was adjourned until the next sitting in the name of the Honourable Senator Ringuette.

°    °    °

Second reading of Bill C-279, An Act to amend the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code (gender identity).

The Honourable Senator Mitchell moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Dyck, that the bill be read the second time.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Carignan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Poirier, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.


The Honourable Senator Carignan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Poirier:

That the Senate do now adjourn.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

(Accordingly, at 6:33 p.m. the Senate was continued until tomorrow at 1:30 p.m.)

REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 14-1(7):

Report on the administration of the Canada Small Business Financing Act for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2012, pursuant to the Act, S.C. 1998, c. 36, ss. 18 and 20.—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1542.

Reports of the Federal Public Service Health Care Plan Administration Authority for the fiscal year ended December 31, 2008, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2). —Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1543.

Reports of the Federal Public Service Health Care Plan Administration Authority for the fiscal year ended December 31, 2009, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2). —Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1544.

Reports of the Federal Public Service Health Care Plan Administration Authority for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2011, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2).—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1545.

Reports of the Federal Public Service Health Care Plan Administration Authority for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2012, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2).—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1546.

Report on operations under the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development Agreement Act for the year 2012, pursuant to the Act, S.C. 1991, c. 12, s. 7.—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1547

Summary of the Corporate Business Plan for 2013-2014 to 2015-2016 of the Canada Revenue Agency, pursuant to the Canada Revenue Agency Act, S.C. 1999, c. 17, sbs. 49(2). —Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1548.

Report on the administration of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Superannuation Account, together with the Auditor General's Report, for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2012, pursuant to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Superannuation Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. R-11, s. 31.—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1549.


Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 12-5

Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples

The Honourable Senator Enverga replaced the Honourable Senator Beyak (April 16, 2013).

The Honourable Senator Ataullahjan replaced the Honourable Senator Meredith (March 27, 2013)

Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade

The Honourable Senator Ataullahjan replaced the Honourable Senator Wallin (March 28, 2013).

The Honourable Senator Finley replaced the Honourable Senator Duffy (March 27, 2013)

The Honourable Senator Johnson replaced the Honourable Senator Buth (March 27, 2013).

The Honourable Senator Nolin replaced the Honourable Senator Wells (March 27, 2013)

Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs

The Honourable Senator Frum replaced the Honourable Senator Ogilvie (March 27, 2013).

The Honourable Senator White replaced the Honourable Senator Beyak (March 27, 2013)

Standing Senate Committee on National Finance

The Honourable Senator Duffy replaced the Honourable Senator Finley (April 16, 2013).

The Honourable Senator Finley replaced the Honourable Senator Neufeld (March 27, 2013).

Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence

The Honourable Senator Buth replaced the Honourable Senator Plett (April 15, 2013).

The Honourable Senator Day replaced the Honourable Senator Cordy (April 15, 2013).

The Honourable Senator Cordy replaced the Honourable Senator Day (April 12, 2013)

The Honourable Senator Patterson replaced the Honourable Senator Wallin (March 28, 2013).

Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages

The Honourable Senator McInnis replaced the Honourable Senator Poirier (April 15, 2013).

Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications

The Honourable Senator Mockler replaced the Honourable Senator Housakos (April 16, 2013).

 

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